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golemanjanegolemanjane

Question about Rule 12

I was teaching the rules this past weekend to a group of Spiritual Directors and had an important question come up about Rule 12 and stopping the snowball at the top of the mountain. She said what if someone can't stop it at the top? What if someone can't stop it at all. It's not that easy or simple and then they feel guilty, ashamed, a failure. . . (I think her context was with alcohol). We discussed that this is a tool box. That there are many different tools. It is important to understand that we are not alone and sometimes need a community or trusted to friend to help, how secrets are not helpful, etc. But I have felt uneasy about this rule. I remember teaching medical students and using a video clip of Bob Newhart as a therapist where he keeps repeating "Just stop it! …

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myavarone
yesterday

I sincerely want to thank all those who responded to the question asked by “golemanjane,” and I will add my two cents.


The posts that have reminded us to make the distinction between spiritual and non-spiritual desolation are right on target.


Let’s suppose that a person who is striving to make progress in their walk with the Lord and also striving to make progress on the road to sobriety has a fall and drinks again.  They are likely to experience spiritual desolation at their failure, and the thoughts that follow from their desolation may be as follows: “You did it again; you will never be any better than you are; God has lost His patience with you; He can’t possibly love you anymore after these repeated failures.”


Now is the moment for the person to realize that there is a NEW opportunity to apply Rule 12 by resisting the spiritual desolation right at its beginning, even if they did not resist the temptation to drink at its beginning.  By using the means to combat spiritual desolation described in Rule 6 and by doing so promptly, they can shatter the power of the spiritual desolation to harm them, although the danger from alcohol remains very real.


As hinted by Debra, acting against the temptation of spiritual discouragement will likely also assist them in their battle against alcohol, even though the two temptations are qualitatively different.


Fr. Mark Yavarone, OMV

bryanochsbryanochs

Lacey/Yelm WA Discernment Series

Hello all!


I just wanted to give an update on some good news. This is Fr. Bryan Ochs, pastor of Sacred Heart Church in Lacey, WA, St. Columban Catholic Church in Yelm WA, and St. Peter in Tenino WA. Today we just had our first of 5 classes on Discernment of Spirits and wanted to give an update and encouragement to other teachers.


We had a morning session and Evening Session with 125 people total between the two. This was advertised in our parish bulletin, and I promoted it from the pulpit at Mass, and I offered personal invitations. It was pitched as "Overcoming Spiritual Discouragement," at the suggestion of Fr. Gallagher.


People were able to sign up online. I think we actually had more people there than actual signups. We made the book optional, and I would say about 2/3 of the participants bought the book. We sold …


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debrablack
debrablack
Jan 23

You're our Bellingham homeboy Fr. Ochs and we love you! I'm heartened to hear this is going well. Please keep us updated on the challenges as well as the fruits. God bless you!

Edited
Kelly RamirezKelly Ramirez

Spouses not in alignment

Hello all,

I am a spiritual director who has a directee who is married. This directee is in the process of becoming certified to be a spiritual director. One of her 'strengths' is her knowledge of and keen interest in Discernment of Spirits and she has taken several courses over the past couple of years. She has spoken to me at length during our sessions about the struggles in her marriage - mainly that her husband periodically tells her that during a discussion they have had, he feels she is criticizing him and condemning him. She mentioned a comment her husband said to her after she sent him a text to support him one day she knew he had a hard day at work ahead of him. His comment to her the next day was that he doubted whether she really meant it or not. Her question to …


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myavarone
Nov 30, 2025

Dear Kelly,

Thank you for posting on the IDI site, and for your work as a spiritual director!

Because of the individual and personal nature of your question, it may be best addressed to your supervisor. I will give only a general guideline which admits of exceptions. If a directee is seeing a marraige counselor, particlularly one who understands the importance of faith, I encourage them to address to their counselor any questions about how they relate to their spouse. As she puts into practice the advice she receives during marriage counseling, she will have plenty of movements of spirits, and these are the purview of spiritual direction. This prevents me from becoming a de facto second counselor, which would be outside of my area of expertise and might lead to conflicting advice.

I will remember you at Evening Prayer tonight.


In Christ and the Virgin Mary,

Fr. Mark Yavarone, OMV

myavaronemyavarone

Which of Ignatius' rules is your favorite? Why?


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Holly Novotny
Holly Novotny
Jan 17

Rule 5 and Rule 14. I know you asked for one, but I currently find it impossible to choose between these two. A surprise for everyone, I know, that I am contrary. 😏 Why? 5 is a failsafe for everyone all the time - it protects us from making decisions or changes when we may not be listening to the Good Spirit. 14 because if we are attentive to the crumbly bits of our castle walls (weakness, unhealed or untended wounds, etc.), we are prepared to seek assistance for strength and repair there, helping in future attacks, distractions, and temptations. We are not just passively waiting for what might happen next, but deliberately working on building virtue and awareness and deeper trust in our Defender.

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